Snips, snails, puppy dog tails, sugar, spice, everything nice

Oh, you thought you were spared, did you?  Wrong!

The context of Amy's post is the notion that the Church is too feminized.  Not enough men to go church, and it's the church's fault basically.  I've gone through all the comments, and this is what the men say they want:

rigidity, rules, a tougher religion, to do battle with secularism, radical discipleship, a battle, an adventure, a beauty to win, formalism, ceremony, honor, nobility, the rigors of sacraments and devotions, manly liturgy, aesthetics, glory, beauty, strength, transcendence.

They do not want: touchy-feeling stuff, group hugs, Jesus is my best friend theology, and lovey-dovey backslapping psycobabble crap.

Fair enough, I guess.  But the overall feeling I'm getting is "I want church to be just like me and reflect the things I want."  There is no notion that these manly virtues or ideals might need to be transformed in the light of the gospel.  St. Paul calls us to battle against the cosmic powers of this present darkness and proclaim the gospel of peace.  Even this pacifist thinks that's good stuff.  Paul is not instructing men only, but he uses militaristic imagery, which generally might appeal especially to men, and turns it on its head.  Likewise, Paul tells us the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.  Are only women to be gentle?  No.  Jesus blesses the meek.  Are only women to be meek?  No. 

Speaking of Jesus...any notion of femininity or masculinity must be transformed in the light of the cross.  He emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness.  And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death - even death on a cross.  What should glory, honor, nobility and strength look like to men who follow a crucified Messiah?

I was thinking about the verse "did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited" and thought, Jesus never exploited his masculinity either.  He never used his manhood to lord it over others.  He was the servant of all.  And that means I must never use my femininity for gain or to manipulate others.  I must use it in the servanthood of Christ. 

And that takes us to the discussion on Trip's blog.  Maybe that's the point of mutual submission - using our femininity or masculinity to serve one another and Christ.  I'm very willing to say that might mean different ways of expressing that for men and women.  I am not willing to say that means women must be in the altar guild and men should be the committee leaders.  And it's not that I want power.  Women get accused of that whenever we point out that for most of Christian history men held power.  Oh, look at those feminists complaining they don't have enough power!  That's not Christian!  I knew they were up to no good!  No, we want to use the gifts God gave us to the glory of his name.  "But it's against biblical teachings for you to want to teach men (or be an ordained woman, or whatever).  Therefore your desire is wrong."  Well, then we'll get into a biblical and theological discussion about that, but that's not where I want to go right now.   

So, back to the question of how do we get more men to church...Camassia and Peter had good posts about this, and also Tom has a good idea.