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Jesus loves the little aliens...
...all the aliens beyond our world. Green or blue, hostile or polite, they are precious in his sight, Jesus loves the little aliens beyond our world.
The Atlantic has an article (it's not online yet) wondering how the world's religions would react to aliens. I flipped through it, but haven't read it yet. However, something caught my eye, about how it would be problematic for Christianity because of the Incarnation. Jesus became a human, and thus only humans can be saved. The guy quoted said something like, "Jesus didn't come to save the dolphins and the apes...only the humans."
Jesus came to save the world. Yeah, that includes the dolphins and the apes. I don't mean saved as in "accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour." I mean saved as in all creation will be redeemed and set free from bondage. Why wouldn't that include the entire universe? Here's the scandal of particularity part, folks. God covenanted with a particular people to be the chosen people, then God became incarnate in a Jewish man in order to redeem creation. Through this Jewish man's death and resurrection, all nations and races are welcomed and form a new people. There were only two distinctions among peoples - Jews and Gentiles. I don't care if you're an Irish Gentile or a Gentile from the Klingon home world (thanks Tripp for the wacky link), you're still a Gentile and your salvation comes from Jesus.
I don't even know why I'm writing about this. I just thought it was weird. By the way, why are we speculating about this? Has anyone seen any crop circles lately? Help! Where's Joaquin Phoenix and his baseball bat?
Personally I think it's a fascinating topic! Having recently watched
Sagan's film _Contact_, I've been ruminating about this on and off lately.
I can't wait to read the Atlantic article.
Some good Biblical grounding for your position can be found in good old John 3:16, which in Greek says that God so loved the *cosmos* that he gave his one and only Son.
Thanks for the idea of "Kingon Gentiles." I'm still giggling at the thought of a Klingon warrior trying to lead someone through the Four Spiritual Laws... "GOD LOVES YOU AND HAS A VICTORIOUS PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!" =)
NeoTheologue [neotheologue@godsfamily.com]
It seems rather implausible that God would pick this little old planet to
make the appearance that saved the entire universe. What are the
odds?
But then, very little about Christianity makes sense to me...
Kevin [kj1405@msn.com]
Wouldn't you say, Kevin, that it seems implausable that life exists at
all...or that an ordered universe exists at all? Scientists who study the
physical constants that define our universe say that minute changes in the
development of the universe would have resulted in universes that are
incapable of order at all, much less of life. My point is just that "the
odds" isn't always a very good indicator of where the truth lies.
NeoTheologue [neotheologue@godsfamily.com]
Yes, indeed: Why is there something, rather than nothing? And that said,
why has that something become aware of itself and of the other somethings
around it? What is Mind?
The dolphins and the apes, I'm almost certain,
are already saved: they didn't participate in The
Fall.
Rob [fourdakins@msn.com]
Fascinating point, Rob, but I'm not sure I agree...how does Paul's
statement in Romans 8:19-22, quoted below, fit into your
understanding?
"For the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time."
Frustration in the above quote is the NIV translation of the Greek word "mataiotes," translated elsewhere as "futility" (Ephesians 4:17) and "empty" (2 Peter 2:18). How can this describe the "pre-Fall" state?
NeoTheologue [neotheologue@godsfamily.com]
H-m-m. "Frustration" would certainly describe the mental/spiritual state
of Man--the self-reflective ape. Of animals, who evolved along with their
environments and act primarily according to their instincts, with no
thought of death, or of any world other than this one, of which they are so
much a part, I don't know that "frustration"--in any sense--applies. My
assumption is that when the world is transfigured and all is perfection,
the dolphins and the apes will hardly perceive the
difference.
Rob [fourdakins@msn.com]
From my perspective, I don't get to choose whether or not frustration
"applies" to creation. My understanding of the Bible forces me to accept
that it applies as a first principle and then try to understand how it
applies. This leads me to conclude that there is an "emptiness" or
"futility" that affects creation, including the animal kingdom. Creation
can somehow perceive this emptiness, and longs for the time when it will be
liberated from it, when the "sons of God" are "revealed."
How do you understand the Bible, Rob?
NeoTheologue [neotheologue@godsfamily.com]
Neo: In what sense would a chunk of granite be liberated from a feeling of
emptiness? Can creatures without souls experience this frustration of
waiting for the final trump? Or, maybe I'm misinformed: does St. Paul say
that dolphins and apes have souls?
I understand the Bible as something
that must be interpreted using my God-given powers of reason.
I never
said that all of creation would not be transformed. I said only that I
don't feel a need to take literally a passage that seems to impart
self-consciousness to fungi and rain
clouds.
Rob [fourdakins@msn.com]
You're talking about salvation in terms of emotion, which is what I was
arguing against. Salvation isn't "feeling" liberated. I don't know what
it would be like for animals and such, but whether you "feel" it or not is
beside the point. I linked to the Isaiah passage because it's a beautiful
description of peace in nature. It's one way to look at it.
Self-consciousness and feeling are two very different things. There is no
doubt that all animals, and supposedly even plant life, feel. The higher
animals surely have emotions. But they are not self-conscious in the sense
that they can imagine a better world, or any future at all, so it follows
that neither are they aware of any lack thereof. Sometimes a metaphor is
only a metaphor.
Rob [fourdakins@msn.com]
I'd like to see some neuro-biologist's comments on whether animals can
imagine a future. Perhaps someone who's worked teaching sign language to
apes or something along those lines.
Anyway, you make the comment above Rob that "when the world is transfigured and all is perfection, the dolphins and the apes will hardly perceive the difference." I'm struggling with this a bit. I think my goldfish notice the difference when I clean their tank for the first time in two months. Given the degradations imposed on this planet by fallen people, I'd imagine that the animals will notice when God remakes our environment.
But even in writing this, I feel like I'm missing the point. You write, "In what sense would a chunk of granite be liberated from a feeling of emptiness?" I don't know -- there's a deep mystery to it -- but I believe it is "frustrated, futile, empty" and one day will be "liberated" from that state. "Can creatures without souls experience this frustration of waiting for the final trump?" I don't know how -- there's a deep mystery to it -- but I believe they do.
At the most fundamental level, the issue here is a hermeneutical one. From your perspective, what is the structure of Paul's metaphor, and what principle or truth is behind it?
Visit me @ http://neotheologue.blogspot.com
Neo:
You're right, it is a deep mystery. In giving the most simple
answer, I'd say that Paul was only a man and that his statement was
somewhat hyperbolic. If we want to stipulate that every word and phrase in
the Bible is literally true, however, for the sake of argument, I would try
to conceive of the Triune God as Information, Information Known, and
Information Imparted. This is a very rough (and updated for the
"information age") paraphrase of a conception of Meister Eckhart's. In
this sense, I can conceive of all of creation partaking of some degree of
God's self-knowledge, and thereby being in "anticipation". I've probably
only made things worse...
Rob [fourdakins@msn.com]
Not at all! I really appreciate your conceptualizing of Trinity in terms
of Information. "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we
shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even
as I am fully known" (1Co 13:12 NIV).
I think I would be a much more Christlike person if I embraced the humility that comes with my current lack of both information and understanding.
Visit me @ http://neotheologue.blogspot.com
Neo:
I'm happy that I was able to make myself somewhat clear. Thanks
again for engaging!
Rob [fourdakins@msn.com]